Transcript — Fr SDY on prayers to Saints; books of Luminaries, Jubilees, Job; Biblical cosmology, and more!!

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00:00 a lot of research, a lot of due diligence. So, I hope that it’s useful for you guys. Anyway, love you all. Have a good one. Bye-bye. I guess my job here is done. Thank you for watching, guys. And father Doctor Steven the Young. >> Oh, Orland’s off on some weird thing. He has the basic issue that all Protestants >> Father Jonathan, >> I was able to find sequence to our lady, but it looks like a Roman Catholic doctrine. Can you actually tell us where you’re you’re grabbing that source from? Gavin Ortland >> the transfigured life YouTube channel Alex the orthop himself Jay Dyer Alex my friend Ben from cleave to antiquity >> Alex Saurin >> father Peter [music] here >> let’s start with uh Alex >> king from barrel age faith >> Alex we didn’t only summon the most goatated super chats ever we summoned >> welcome what an intro >> we love Israel we love Israel >> Alex Saurin I’m thinking you >> the great father deacon Dr.

00:53 Anodiz to the scapegoat from Alex Warren. Orthodoxologist lawyer. >> You are an Orthodox lawyer. Orthodox lawyer. Eastern Orthodox lawyer. >> What is the pope obligated to do to issue an infallible statement >> in in a veritical sense? He is not obligated to do anything. >> We see that in the first millennium >> We don’t see that in the first millennium or the second millennium >> That’s how they would have understood >> them is not the same. >> Yeah. Like I Yeah. I don’t think God is like made up of parts and one of them is >> Yeah. So again, the logos is associated. I I answered you if you’re not tracking. See, the logos is associated with all of that tradition. Listen, you’re the one always talking about tradition in your church. You should understand this concept. And and I already told you no, because God is like >> it was incarnate in Christ. >> This is not distinct from the father.

01:39 You’re telling us the father was >> the guy was like a lawyer or whatever, >> Wait, how do you know it’s in fire? >> Inspiration means it comes from God himself. God breathed. They looked us out of 2 Timothy 3:16. Are you saying Clement was equal? He’s asking you how do you know that? >> How do you know? the scripture only says scripture is >> Which what scripture is that? >> What is that Matt? That’s the very thing in question. >> Scripture. The graph. >> What is that? >> It means writings. >> What is it? >> Which writing? >> What is it? >> Well, we can we can go and discuss which writings. It doesn’t matter. We could for just argumentative purposes accept your extra. >> What is it? You can’t say on what basis you know what the Bible is. >> This is so insane. You’re here to read the Bible and you came to you know what it is. >> I don’t even know what you’re saying but I didn’t know what you’re asking.

02:26 I don’t understand. >> Okay. So this time on what basis do you know what the Bible is? >> I don’t have to know what the Bible is. >> Oh my god. >> Alex. Alex. It’s a tactic. >> You don’t have to know what the Bible >> Children can’t govern the church. >> Isn’t there Isn’t voting on how church finances are spent isn’t that a say in governing the church? If you are at a congregation that does not have men qualified to be elders. Congregation that does not have men qualified to be >> So you have a bunch of unqualified men governing the church. >> I think we just lost this debate. >> God bless you guys. Thank you and have a good night. Love you. Byebye. And stream. And stream. [laughter] >> How do you guys like that one? Guys, we already got a super chat. I didn’t even have Father Steven on the stage yet.

03:13 We have one for Father Stephen. We’ll get back to it in a second. We got membership from Rachel. Thank you, Rachel, for the membership. It’s been a minute since I’ve streamed. I was backstage talking to Father Stephen. I like forgot how Streamyard works. I was like, I have to start the stream. I have to get the intro. Uh, I have another question for Father Stephen. And then a question on Twitch from my Twitch fam. Streaming on Twitch. Is this going to be a gaming stream with Father Steven? I mean, I have to sharpen up on my Marvel rivals uh abilities because generally I’m just a just a Halo player. just the boomer shooter you guys know. But uh without further ado, you know, I won’t uh I won’t keep him backstage here. He’s Father Steven D. Young who is an expert on second temple Judaism. He can read all of the ancient languages, more or less a bonafide genius. Father Steven, glad [laughter] to have you back on the stream.

04:01 How are you doing? >> It is good to be here. There was a moment there people don’t realize there was a moment there just before and as the stream was coming live where I was watching Alex watch Alex >> and it was sort of a Phil Collins in the air tonight kind of situation except nobody drowned. [laughter] >> Not this time. No. >> Uh we have a super chat for you. It’s from minor man Sam. Five bucks. Thank you for the five bucks. He says, “Father Steven, what’s your opinion on Red Hot Chili Peppers? Also, I may have to debate you on bit ooneyies. I can’t believe I lived to see you be wrong. >> No, bit of honeys are vile and nasty. Like, that’s not even a real candy. That’s like a depression era prank that the robber barons pulled on the rest of the population.

04:50 [clears throat] you already hear, folks. >> Red hot chili peppers. Um, I mean, I’m from California, so early on, you know, they h they have they have their good stuff, but at a certain point toward the end of their run, it really was just like the same music with somebody reading the Wikipedia entry for California over it over and over again. Uh, we have a question from Caleb. Okay, real quick before my ADHD gets the better of me and I just go down like whatever bunny trails you guys send me on. We have 90 minutes of Father Steven tonight. So, we’re not going to do call-ins for questions. If you guys have super chats, those go to the top.

05:38 Obviously, if you guys in the comments section, Pika Q. I’m going to do my best to do the thing that Cleave does and like star those so I can get back to them later, but I cannot promise that. I will do my best. You may have to ask your question a few times, but I guess we’ll go through these at the beginning here. Is reptile meat Lenton? This is a good question. >> Uh, reptile meat counts as fish. >> It has a backbone. I did not know that. >> So, anytime you can eat fish with a backbone, you can eat gator at all. This is a This is an important question down here in southern Louisiana. >> Yeah, I’ve I’ve had gator before. One of the parallegals that like a few years ago, I worked at this like really big like silk stalking like fancy firm, which whatever. the parallegal there, uh, she had her husband would go hunting for gators in like Louisiana in the the bayou, I think she would refer to it as.

06:29 And like I tried some. Honestly, it tastes like chicken. >> Yeah, it does. There’s kind of a sweet flavor to it, though. >> most reptile meat, including gator, there’s a little bit of this sweet sweetness to it that you don’t get, but it is a lot like chicken otherwise in texture. It’s a lot like chicken. But a gator tail has a ton of meat in >> Yeah. Yeah. It’s all muscle. >> Love you too, Alex from Good Godfather. Thank you. Love you guys. Since your video, I want to start a band called Gravity Angel. What do you I mean, okay, I’ll get I’ll get to that in a second. We got five five bucks from Tay, 25 from Mr. Fist. Thank you. The mods supporting the channel. Thank you. Epic video drop yesterday. Looking forward to this 19our stream. Well, I I debunked that one already. Yeah, I was finally >> go as long as he wants.

07:17 I’m just I’m only able to be here. >> I might go longer. That’s true. >> Rachel says, “I was finally crisismated last weekend. Many years, Rachel.” That’s awesome news. That’s why we do this. Uh Kevin Roose, five bucks. Father Steven bless. I know there is not a word in Greek for man/human, but why do Greek priests use human in divine services instead of man? >> Well, there is. I mean, so there there’s there’s a word anir in Greek that means like a man, right? Like this is a man. >> Uh and then there’s anthropos that means man like mankind man like human person, right?

08:06 And uh same thing is is true with uh woman in like in ancient Greek yini which is where we get the gyn in gynecologist uh is [laughter] means woman like a woman right and then there’s yini that means like womanhood or like right, of uh female humans. Um, and knowing that distinction is important in a bunch of places in the New Testament. Uh, so for example, uh, this is a freebie unrelated to tonight’s topic.

08:53 But when uh when St. Paul says woman will be saved through it’s not the word for a woman. So he’s not saying a woman, right, is saved by giving birth to a child, right, the way it’s sometimes He’s saying woman like womanhood, this is right after the discussion of Adam and Eve and Eve having sinned first. He says womanhood will be saved through childbirth. And he’s talking about the >> That’s how much am I missing from the Bible by not reading this in the original languages? [laughter] Because that’s that’s a totally different meaning. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that’s talking about, you know, like Saintase says that like the Theotocos is the cause of salvation.

09:44 >> It’s like the reversal of what Eve did. >> Right. And it’s things like that’s why already in St. Erynaeus, you have the idea of the Theotocos as the second Eve. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Because he’s reading this in the original and it’s right there [laughter] >> because St. Paul says she is the second Eve. Yeah. >> Yo, I guess you guys are saying that my thing is blurry. Is that correct? >> Do you guys all have it blurry? Does >> You did fuzz up a little bit. >> Oh no. >> At one point. >> Does anybody see me clearly? >> Are you on that Canadian internet? >> That’s the question. let me do a quick speed test because it should be should be fine.

10:32 Yeah, my internet’s fine. Interesting. Blurry bit rate. >> Oh no, everybody’s saying blurry as >> You’re not that blurry to me, but you’re a little blurry to me. >> you kind of you kind of look like in one of those old movies when they had the like slightly aging actress on screen who they were trying to make look young and beautiful. So, they put Vaseline on the lens. >> It would just kind of haze it a little bit like >> I didn’t know they did that. It’s not Okay, hold on. Hold on. I’m going to try something here. Thank you for your patience, Father Stephen. I’m just assuming that I have it. Ah, good.

11:21 Hostile takeover achieved. So, uh, while we’re waiting, give you all a topic. You can talk amongst yourselves. Holy Roman Empire. Neither Holy nor Roman, nor an empire. Okay.

12:18 How am I now? How am I now? People test test. The gaming chair has been usurped. So it Yeah, I kept them occupied while you were gone. Don’t worry. 240 [laughter] to 480. Yikes. Okay. Anyway, bump from 480 to 720. Yeah. Hopefully Streamyard fixes it because it’s not it’s not my camera. I know it’s not because I have the app working in the background. So I did this whole video in response to Gavin Ortland who basically rehashing the more or less not exactly the same but more or less the same heresy as vigilante said that basically we shouldn’t be praying to saints you know this is some pagan accretion some heathen practice that entered the church uh and that even if they do hear you they can’t really do anything about it anyway and he has a whole bunch of other objections that we went through on that video but I wanted to talk specifically about his objections like Psalm 103 three, Psalm 148, the song of the three youths, and about how he chalks that all up to poetic apostrophe, and that this separation that he has between like the spiritual and the physical is not the way that ancient people saw things.

13:42 >> Right. Right. Yeah. He’s he’s making a distinction that they didn’t make. Um the the And part of it Yeah. I mean, part of it is is like even in some of your language in your response video, right? And I’ve even used this language, right? So, this isn’t like it feeds into this this wrong impression when you say that there’s like a spiritual being or an angel or a lowercase G god that stands behind the sun, moon, and stars, for example. That that behind implies that kind of >> Yeah. And that’s not really what they thought, right?

14:28 And I mean, you could you could really put a fine point on this, right? I if we were in direct discussion >> right, by saying, “What do you think the psalmist thought the moon was?” Because if at any point they say a giant they’re being like unbelievably Right? They did not think the moon was a rock. They did not think the moon was a material object or the sun. Right? They didn’t know anything about they didn’t know was a mass of incandescent gas or a myasma of incandescent plasma depending on which version you want to go with. Uh because they didn’t know what plasma was. They didn’t understand hydrogen helium reactions.

15:16 They didn’t [laughter] like this is not something anybody writing the scriptures knew about. >> And so they don’t talk about that, >> right? And you don’t have to go past the uh first chapter of the Bible to see this because Genesis in the creation describes the sun and the moon as the greater light and the lesser light. They’re lights in the sky. They did not know that the moon was reflecting right? That was not in their in their viewpoint. Um, >> when did that as a little bunny trail, when did that get into their viewpoint? Because I feel like St. Gregory of Nissa already is talking about like things similar to like a heliocentric model with like different planets revolving around the sun.

16:10 >> Well, sort of. Yeah, sort of. They didn’t have a full-blown heliocentric model yet. Um, a lot of, you know, I hate to say this out loud because this might cause people to go down a whole have a whole existential crisis, but a lot of the church fathers were flat-earthers and dogmatically so. >> Well, it helps that uh it that helps understand these terms like the ends of the earth. Like I messaged you about this one because I was like what exactly does this term mean? And if you have this idea that like the earth is a disc covered by a dome. The dome is heaven and above the dome is where God is and like the that’s like the realm of the angels is like that dome. Then as you get to the edge of the earth like the edge of the disc, you get closer to heaven.

17:01 And that’s the edge of the earth. That’s where you have to go. some like or or a mountain that’s really high up or like some remote area and you have to go there. That’s where you meet. You >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that’s how ancient people viewed the world, >> And this only causes problems if you’ve gotten a bad case of modernist on the brain, right? Because liberal Protestantism came along in the 18th and 19th century and said, “Oh, well, the authors of scripture thought XYZ unscientific thing. Therefore, this is all bunkum and you can throw it in the trash, right?” And the response from who originally called themselves fundamentalists but later evangelicals from conservative evangelicals conservative Protestants was not to try to talk with any kind of nuance about [laughter] right the way we interpret the Bible but was to just say no right if the Bible talks about that’s the way that’s the way it is and we’re going to try and use science to prove it.

18:20 This is why I’ve said young earth creationism, the ism, not thinking the earth isn’t that old, >> But young earth creationism, the kind of >> like official movement. Yeah. >> Is modernism. He’s using modern science. He has accepted the presupposition that modern science tells us what is He’s also accepted the presupposition that the Bible is true. And therefore, for his view to work, he has to try and he has to to prove modern science to prove the Bible with modern science, right? That the truths of the Bible are also demonstrated by modern science. Um, and that’s a whole right rabbit hole.

19:07 And it’s it has all along the way been applied very inconsistently. Right. Like there there are flat-earthers out there still. >> They’re very loud. We >> But the vast majority of even very traditional Christians accept that the earth is not flat even though the Bible talks about it that way. >> And a lot of the church fathers argued that it was. So I guess the way for >> the way for us to understand it then is that like God is talking to these ancient people through a way that they understand and he’s not going to, >> you know, get them to revamp all of their understand. Like he doesn’t need to do that in order to get his message >> Right. Right. For the same reason he’s speaking to them in Hebrew. >> Right. Hebrew is a dialect of old >> There’s nothing magical about it.

19:58 I know some Jewish folks will get really mad at me saying that, but [laughter] it is a dialect of old Canaanite like a lot of other dialects that emerge from old Canaanite. Um, but that’s the language that the people he was speaking to spoke and so he speaks to them in that language literally. And then he also [laughter] right and then he’s Christ spoke in Aramaic and I think in some places you could argue Greek right to people >> not because again there’s anything magical about those two languages but the people he was speaking to that’s the language they understood and so in the same way right what would be the point God trying to explain string theory to assuming you even think string theory is It’s not really a point, [laughter] >> right?

20:48 If God had explained how he really created the universe to Moses, we still wouldn’t understand it. >> That’s a good point. >> We always assume that like, oh, if God were real, well, we don’t assume. You know, you’re the Dawkins of the world assume that if God were real, then he would have explained to Moses science in terms of 21st century science because clearly we’ve arrived. >> That’s a good point. And like, why? [laughter] It’s it’s so egocentric because why not science in the year 3000 or the year, [laughter] you know, for 500 years from now or even a hundred years from now, it’ll probably be a totally different terminology. >> it is such a a like it’s kind of a midweight critique honestly. You’re going to use common parlays. But but there is there is a weight to that for conservative Protestants where if they want to acknowledge that the Bible really speaks in a certain they there’s a pressure there’s like a an internal pressure to be like, well then shouldn’t I see it that way?

21:51 Right? And so that I think is actually part of what generates the problem on this. There’s some of that mixed with just right. I I don’t believe in the intercession of saints and therefore I need to overcome this argument for it. [laughter] >> So there’s that too, right? When you’re actually in the debate. But I think we need to acknowledge that for conservative evangelicals and and and Protestants, there is a weight to that of if I exceed that the Bible is saying X about this, doesn’t that mean I need to believe X? And if X contradicts what I might know to be scientifically true, like the moon is a big rock, >> orbiting the Earth, right?

22:42 Then what is what is what does that mean? Right? Like there’s a there’s a tension there. There’s a pressure there, I >> Yeah. Yeah. That puts them in a really awkward position. >> Yeah. Um so I mean it’s not unavoidable, right? They can go back to their own I mean John Calvin you know I mean you got to remember 16th century is when Galileo lived too, right? So when questioned about that kind of stuff, right, because the Bible clearly is describes not just a geocentric universe, but I mean like the earth kind of is the universe. Everything else is just things moving around in Earth’s sky, right? Um uh John Calvin just said Moses was not an astronomer, >> right?

23:33 Like that’s not the purpose of the the penetuk. [laughter] >> And that’s all you need to say really. You don’t need to say anything else. >> Yeah. So there is but >> due to the sort of ethos of American right evangelical theological discourse there is that pressure. You could see that pressure with Orland like when he’s talking about whether the flood was >> Yes. Yeah. Because he thinks it’s a >> right. But like all the sturman drawing about that, right, that he has to go through is because of his >> he got a lot of he got a lot of for that >> that pressure from his audience, right? So that that is a complicating factor with this kind of thing in in yeah, like modern uh Yeah, sorry.

24:18 Go >> The only thing I disagreed with in your response video is I do not think he was lying. [laughter] Okay. So, well, I I said I suspect he was lying, right? >> There is there’s two options, right? I I feel like >> if if he read it, then he must be lying. >> Well, no, that’s he he didn’t. Here’s what happened. Exactly what happened. And if he didn’t read it, if he if he did not read it, then I would say arguably that’s worse than lying because then he used the source he didn’t read to say that my claims are not uh are not uh are not serious. He said to not take them seriously and he based that on something he didn’t even read. >> Yes. Yes. No, I know you’re litigating this. I know. [laughter] >> I I that’s I’m litigate.

25:04 That’s Yes, >> you are correct. And so yeah, and you’re a debater, so it’s about the opponent, >> It’s litigation, so everything helps me. >> Yeah. So way I the way I’m approaching it is I think he made a mistake. I think it’s a really common mistake that lots of people make, including Orthodox people. And so to me, rather than just blaming him for the mistake, right, or assessing why he did it, it’s more important to see the mistake and learn from the mistake. right? So that we don’t do it. And to me, there’s a very simple explanation for what happened there. He received a bunch of quotes secondhand. He was reading secondary sources on the that quoted those quotes the way he did and footnoted them.

25:58 Because people have this weird ethos. They don’t understand what footnotes, academic footnotes are about. So they think, “Oh, it’s footnoted, so it’s legit.” Right. Uh, [laughter] right. And so you accept it and pass out without looking up the quote and reading and reading it in in context. And that is super common. And there’s a lot of quotes that go around third, fourth, fifth, sixth hand like Perry Robinson catching that pseudo Jerome thing that was actually a huge one. Yeah. >> Right. like >> that was one that went around. If you read the literature, there’s a if if you read literature from reformed authors, there’s a quote from St. John Cashins’s conference 10 that they throw around all the time and and they’re getting it from each other.

26:46 If you follow the footnotes, no, you have to go back five or six steps to get a footnote that actually points to where in St. John Cashion the quote is from, >> where exactly it’s quoting other secondary literature that use that in all these other books and and it it if you look at a cutex it does not say what they’re saying it says right >> can I can I explain why I have no sympathy for this I I might need a book actually hold on an in illustrative uh an illustrative device so in law practice if you want to get up to speed in like some area of law like very quickly we have secondary sources these treatises right so it’s Michigan it has like basically a summation of the law and like throughout it’ll just site to like different you guys probably can’t see that but it’ll site to different cases so it’ll give you a proposition and then the case you go to to find that proposition to show that like whoever wrote that article in the treatise didn’t make it up now in my not very long law career but not short either the seven years I’ve been litigating Now, I found at least like one time per year that one of these propositions in these treatises that the case they’re citing to does not support that proposition.

28:11 >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Like again, they’re humans. They’re they make mistakes sometimes. Like sometimes they’re wrong. That’s why you have to check them. If I went to court and I used in a court filing just this treatise without actually reading the case and the other lawyer caught me on it, I would get in big trouble. >> Like big big tr like huge trouble. Like enormous trouble. >> Like you cited a case, Alex, without reading it. Like so when I see Ortland and like maybe maybe it’s just my my professional background, but I think like even you would say that like by PhD standards, yes, you have to go read the original sources. You can’t just like go through these like secondhand chains of >> But like from my background, I’m like how how like how can you use that as a basis against me when you haven’t read it?

29:02 So, like I don’t maybe I’m just a little I’m a little You’re a little more gracious than I am on this one though. >> No, my point is again I’m not about the man. I’m This isn’t about [laughter] defending Orland, right? Like we had lunch. I like the guy, right? >> Okay. Personally, I’m not defending what he did at all. I’m just talking about here’s what he did. >> We got people in our audience, right? people who watch this who make videos themselves and stuff, right? Orthodox people do this all the time. >> Yeah. It’s not good >> with stuff, right? Like like uh people saying St. Maximus the confessor said that if the fall hadn’t happened, people humans would reproduce asexually. >> You see people saying that and quoting studying that all the time, >> right?

29:50 I had to spend I had to spend hours and hours down what they were even quoting. And when I finally found it in the Greek of St. Maximus’s ambigua, that’s not what he says at all. He’s talking about something else. He’s talking about something else. And he says like as an right? As an aside, he says, I think that perhaps if the fall hadn’t happened, humans might have reproduced differently. And then he goes back to the topic. Then he doesn’t say that they would have >> that gets quoted is if he dogmatically like and it’s just like what or the the the article I published about St. Jerome talking about Ezra. >> Right. It has entered the arena of common knowledge.

30:39 So you’ll find all of these books in textbooks without even a citation saying that St. Jerome doubted the mosaic authorship of the penet. It took me forever to even find a citation when I f the first citation I found was to another secondary source. They were citing each other. Finally found the citation in St. Jerome. Looked it up and he’s not again not talking about that at all. He’s talking about the use of the phrase in in the Torah until this very day. And he says, ’ Whether you think Moses wrote it or Ezra restored it until this very day is still pointing to some point later than what happens in Genesis. >> Do you think that academics would benefit from having like uh basic lawyerly due diligence [laughter] Well, part of it is everybody does this other dissertation because when you’re doing your dissertation, your worst nightmare is that this kind of thing happens in front of the dissertation >> Yeah.

31:43 Right. like somebody committee when you’re defending a good, [laughter] you know, I looked up your citation and >> that’s a really good point because like litigators are in front of judges all the time and judges have like overly zealous, ambitious law students trying to prove themselves that are their like summer clerks and they’ll just they’ll literally just hand off briefs to them and be like, “Do a citation check on this for me. Make sure that these sources actually stand for the proposition that they’re saying they stand for.” Right? So, we have to be ready for that. Like, every time we have a hearing, we have to know all of our cases. We have to know what happened. Uh, was it overturned later? Was there a part of it later that was overturned? And if there was, does it matter? Like, what can I say about this case? Right? These are all questions that we’re asking ourselves all the time.

32:29 And it seems like in the academic sphere, it’s just whenever you’re in front of a committee or presenting a paper at a conference or or something like that, it seems like maybe if you go into the the like your own doing your own thing, then maybe your feet are not held to the fire as frequently. >> Yeah. I mean, what level what level of diligence should we reasonably expect from like a 20 or 30 minute YouTube video for a popular audience? >> You know, more than that, >> right? Well, no. I also think right like I published that journal article correcting the St. Jerome thing, right? Yeah. I think it’s good that you pointed that out. >> Right. What I was doing, people need to come and point it out, right? >> But I could see how >> I mean it took you a long time to put that response video out, man.

33:16 Like if you’re trying [laughter] to put out a video a week. >> Well, because because I read >> do all that diligence, right? Like >> I read everything, father. I went to Larry Herado. I read not only that book there. I read also that other book. I read Lawrence Stuckenbrook that book also. And then I reread my Mayor Baralon’s paper. There was a bunch of stuff that I ordered on just ancient near east stuff and I read all of that too. I’ve done more reading in the last two weeks. >> It’s probably like 80% of the reading I did in preparation of the bar. I did a lot a lot of reading in the last two >> And I’m not I’m not saying you should do that. I’m saying it’s good that there are people who do that too, right? But I mean, and and when it’s pointed out, right? Like I would like to think that, right, Orland would would look at it and be like, “Oh, okay.” You know, >> go look at those and be like, “Oh, okay.

34:12 Yeah, those don’t make the case, >> right, that I want them to make.” But part of it, too, is right, he’s that’s not his field, right? Second temple Judaism and early Christianity isn’t his It’s true. >> And so he went to the people like Herado and Right. >> who are on his team but who are in that >> right? So he was kind of outsourcing, Uh to their work, right? >> Somebody else quoted from their work >> And there Yeah. And there’s somebody Yeah. Probably somebody put together a thing that had these >> Yeah. quotes and everything and he probably read several of those and put together his own video with his own takes. But um the the um you can’t know everything about everything.

35:01 So you got to outsource a little bit. >> Well, let let me explain how this works I guess in our field is everything that I cited in that video I’ve already completely forgotten. [laughter] >> I I I learned it all. I made the video >> and then my [laughter] brain just tossed it all out. And that’s kind of how we’re trained, I guess, like in in the law field. It’s like you need to have a really high level understanding of like one topic >> until the case is over. >> And that’s it. When the case is over, you move on to something else and you learn something else. >> Unless it’s a particular thing you deal with over and over and over >> frequently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> yeah, I guess I don’t maybe may maybe I have unfair standards for >> so there’s a I’m just saying you know >> rather than again a thinking about him >> right look at okay this is a mistake people make right people need to try to avoid making that mistake right and and >> uh and and double check these things there’s also it’s also something of an effect of the compartmentalization right of of academia, right?

36:12 So, um Orland is very much in this he’s in the apologetic space very much, but he’s also the apologetic space from the perspective of historical theology. So, he’s thinking of everything in terms of how early can you prove that this thing right within the church. >> Rarely going into second temple Judaism. that’s why he would have to kind of outsource that like historical theology doesn’t really deal with that part, >> right? Um that’s on the other side of a partition. And so Herertado, as you saw in those quotes, even the the Protestants in that field have to right, in in order to not take the liberal Protestant position reading the second temple literature, they have to acknowledge that there’s a distinction between worship and >> In Jewish piety, right?

37:12 which is something that Protestant apologists arguing about things like Vederation of the Saints and iconography want to push late into church history, let alone seeing that distinction in right? And Larry Herado, who passed away, but Larry Herertado wasn’t thinking about apologetics. He wasn’t thinking about apologetics. He wasn’t thinking about arguing with Roman Catholics or Orthodox or >> anybody else, right? He was just what what do I observe here? >> Uh there was a quote that people have been asking me about from James Jordan’s book and I don’t know your opinions about James Jordan. I kind of like his stuff. I feel like he’s pretty close. >> His stuff is his stuff is mostly it’s sort of like a lot of these guys.

38:01 It’s like what I say about Heiser too. If you look at their academic stuff and their scholarly stuff, >> right? when you look at their stuff that’s aimed toward their own folks or their own theology, right? I mean, James Jordan’s a Presbyterian, right? Like, >> that’s so the Calvinism and the Presbyterianism come out when he’s interpreting, but when he’s just doing scholarship, he’s usually pretty solid. >> Yeah. There was this quote that I used in the video from him to make the point of to what extent ancient people saw angels at work in the natural world. And he he took it even to the extent of like look if you drop something and it lands in your lap. An ancient person would see that as well. Yeah, God is like there there are these forces that God put in order in the universe that you know like including the force of gravity.

38:50 But also it is extremely likely and probabilistic. It is probable that gravity angels pulled it down or pushed it down to that place. Uh, is that would you say that’s an exaggeration or do you think that is that how how people would have seen it? >> That’s basically accurate. >> That’s basically accurate. The problem is the way people are envisioning that in their head. >> They’re envisioning a bunch of tiny little people with wings like flying up and grabbing the thing and pulling it down into your [laughter] into your lap. Right. Which is not what that means. >> Right. We’re talking about spirits in the world doing things, right? Um, so you have to kind of get that part out of your head.

39:36 Um, but I mean even even uh that’s basically what’s going on in Aristotle. They they’ve done a lot of the Enlightenment did a lot of work to try >> uh supernaturalize Aristotle. >> But Aristotle things fall because of their natural will. So if you drop a rock, it falls to the earth because its desire is to be close to the earth. Use the word will. The lima [laughter] >> like that’s so that’s implying some kind of spirit associated with the rock, right? That that has this sort of this sort of right? Um yeah. And so this is before our time slips away.

40:24 Uh >> the core the core of the problem with this idea of dividing the sun, moon and stars from the angels or lowercase G gods or spirits quote unquote associated with them. is to put a really fine point on it, for all ancient people, the sun and the moon and the stars were for divine beings. So it’s not a spirit standing behind a material object that is in >> right? It is a spirit animating >> a body. And this isn’t just what all ancient people thought.

41:14 This is what the Bible says. Okay. And I can demonstrate this to you. >> Can you pull up verses on screen? >> Yes. Those will be less blurry than me, I I suspect. [laughter] >> So, you’re arguing for the perspu of scripture, at least on your stream. >> Yeah. [laughter] Uh, what would you like me to pull up? >> Uh, Job. Start with Job 38:7. >> And you could pull up the surrounding. You know, >> you have a uh preferred version translation. No, >> it doesn’t really matter. We’ll get you’ll get the point Unless it’s the message or something like then you know.

42:08 >> No, this just LSB. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> All right. So, this is Job 38 and there’s verse 7. >> When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God or I guess I’ll start a little bit. Uh >> talking about the creation of the world. He’s talking to Job about basically were you there when I created the world? >> Yeah. Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me if you know understanding who set its measurements since you know who or who stretched the line on it or what were its bases sunk uh on what were its bases sunk or who laid its cornerstone when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy. >> Right? So if you understand the way poetic Hebrew is written you understand that it’s written in sort of couplets and parallelisms, >> right?

43:00 Yes. >> Um and Mark Smith talks about the parallelisms. >> Yeah. Markith I mean the book on this uh uh is um Robert Alter’s uh art of biblical poetry. Like if you if you study the poetic books of the Old Testament in any seminary or college in the United States, you will read Robert Alter’s art of biblical poetry. >> All right, add [clears throat] two >> It is [laughter] it is that standard and he goes through the different types of parallelism, right? But so this is a parallelism meaning when it says when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy.

43:46 Those are two descriptions of the same thing. Okay. So the morning stars singing and the sons of God shouting for joy is one thing. The morning stars are the sons of God. The sons of God, as we know from the beginning of Job, are the angels, right? The sons of God all gather, right, in front of God, right? Present themselves to God, right? So here the angels are the stars and when God creates the world, they’re singing, right? Is what’s presented here. Uh this imagery gets picked up famously in Luke chapter 2, right?

44:37 In Luke chapter 2, the angel appears to the shepherds. Remember Lionus, right? Angel appears to the shepherd says, Messiah is born. Good news.” Right? And then uh in verse 13 there, so the heavenly host is a phrase. You could go and word study this in the Old Testament that’s always referring to the sun, moon, and stars. the stars sing again at the birth of Christ.

45:27 Is that the creation? The birth of >> says oranu oran oranu oranu. >> Yeah, that’s >> or form of the word heaven. >> Yeah. Which is army of heaven. Heavenly Very interesting. so uh this then becomes how uh the resurrection and the life of the world to come gets described >> like 1 Corinthians 15. >> Well, we’re going to get there. >> Okay. All right. All right. All right. >> We’re gonna start earlier.

46:13 Go to Daniel >> I love this. that’s pretty spot-on. And uh now at that time, Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people will stand and there will be a time of distress such as never happened since there was a nation until that time. And at that time, your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will be awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to reproach and everlasting contempt. And those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.

47:03 >> You could see the parallelism there, too. Right. >> That’s pretty spot-on. That’s right. >> I don’t know how you get around that >> Yes. Right. So, so you This is [laughter] how the life of the world to come is being described. Christ himself puts an even finer point on this in Luke chapter 20. >> All right. Luke chapter 20. >> Yeah. Bible study. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Love it. Go down to verse 36. And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage.

47:53 But those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. For they cannot even die anymore because they are like angels and are sons of God being sons of the resurrection.” >> Right? So they are um other translations don’t have like they have equal to because that’s the it’ssa there. Um so sons of God equal to the angels right. Um so this is again right stars are angels and this is the imagery >> This is where the idea of theosis quack glorification comes from.

48:40 This is the idea that gets drawn out in second temple Judaism and then also in the fathers. It’s also in revelation that the angels who fell are replaced by >> glorified glorified humans. That’s why the glor the humans who are saved by Christ are called holy ones which is a title used for angels in the Old Testament. Right? >> Well, I think this is important because a lot of people are like, well, they didn’t pray to, you know, departed righteous humans in the Old Testament. I’m like, how many departed righteous humans in the Old Testament became sons of God became like Koshim, the Hebrew term. Yeah. >> It became holy ones. >> Elijah and Moses. Yeah. There’s only a few exceptions to that.

49:27 Exactly. Most people did not. Most people went straight to Shaol. >> first Enoch, you see someone praying to >> Yes. That’s you mentioned [laughter] uh chapter 65 in your Apocrypha book and then there’s also chapter 106. >> Um but this it’s like such a nonsequittor and misunderstanding. But I I feel like the Bible on its face talks about this. It’s like John chapter one that the word of God became flesh. saw that anyone who believes in him would become a son of God. >> That’s that’s the whole point. >> Yes. And that’s the this this is coded into revelation, right? So the big difference or one of the big differences between St. John’s vision when he comes before the throne of God and those of like Isaiah and Ezekiel in the Old Testament, right, is that there are the human elders are there, right?

50:22 And there are 24 human elders, which is not coincidentally onethird of 72. In Revelation 12, the devil sweeps onethird of the stars of heaven. >> Yeah. That’s >> which are the one-third of the angels. >> Because stars are angels, [laughter] right, out of heaven. And so they’re replaced by humans, right? That’s what I meant by this being found there in Revelation. But yeah, to put sort of the final button on this, 1 Corinthians 15 starting with uh verse 35 where St. Paul is explicitly talking about what the body of resurrected humans will be like.

51:09 Yeah, this is one that I didn’t get to in the video, but it was one I wanted to include, but I I couldn’t find like a good a good place to set it. So, I’m glad that we’re doing >> But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” >> You fool. That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies. and that which you sow, you do not sow the body uh you do not sow the body which is to be but a bare grain perhaps of wheat or of something else. >> So what he what he means there is if you look at a wheat seed that you sew in the ground that doesn’t look like a stock of >> right? If you put an apple seed in the ground that doesn’t look like an apple >> right? It’s just a bare, >> The the contrast between our bodies now and our bodies in the resurrection.

52:01 >> Yeah. But God gives it a body just as he wished and to each of the seeds a body of its own. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men and another flesh of beasts and another flesh of birds and another flesh of >> Right? So there’s all these there’s all these different types of bodies for different creatures. So keep that in mind. Different creatures have different types of bodies. Okay? >> There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. [laughter] But the glory of the heavenly is one and the glory of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the sun and another glory of the moon and another glory of the stars. For star differs from star in glory. >> Right? So notice >> also yes >> notice here these are bodies like a human body or animal bodies.

52:53 There’s also these bodies in heaven of the sun, moon and stars which are animated by something. Right? He’s not talking about rocks, right? He’s not talking about quote unquote inanimate objects, right? He’s talking about humans, then animals, then the sun, moon, and stars as bodies that are animated. >> So also is Yeah. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a corruptible body. It is raised an incorruptible body. It is sown in dishonor. It is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness. It is raised in power. Notice the glory language which he associated with the heavenly bodies of the sun, moon and stars.

53:43 So our body in the resurrection is like one of those bodies, >> right? And he’s where he’s getting this from Daniel from get the other stuff that we’ve read. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there also is a spiritual body. Yeah. So St. Paul just comes out and says this, right? This isn’t just me saying, “Oh, ancient people thought this, and that should determine your reading of scripture.” This is how scripture reads is based on that that understanding.

54:30 >> But scripture interpreting scripture. Yes, the writers of scripture, both both the psalmist who wrote those psalms and Christ himself, the New Testament authors, the later Old Testament authors like Daniel the prophet, uh, all understand it that way. So to try to impose a kind of modern right separation. Well, the moon, sun, moon, and stars are really this and okay, yeah, they didn’t understand gravity. They didn’t understand these things and so they appealed to spirits and stuff, but now we know better, [laughter] right? That’s just pure that’s pure modernism.

55:16 >> Yes. Which you you talk about that in this in the the whole council of God introduction to your Bible book. I couldn’t recommend this enough. It’s like a 100 pages and it’s something that I keep coming back to over and over again where you talk about how this like need to treat and I think you brought it up in your talk with uh with Gavin as well. This like need to treat every line in the Bible as a logical proposition. >> At fourth, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that this is a new way of reading the Bible. This is like last like 200 >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a very modern way. I mean, even among like Protestants, even among reformed people, this is a very pre- 18th century, like the the the 16th and 7th century reformed writers don’t think that way.

56:05 >> James B. Jordan, he I didn’t include this in the video, but in the very next section, so he talks about gravity angels. The next paragraph height he cites to John Calvin to support the proposition that there are gravity angels. John Calvin [laughter] is his is who he cites to. Yeah. So that it’s a it’s a it’s a very modern thing. And the real theological problem with it, and this is something you have to be very aware of, especially when you’re speaking with with Protestants who come from that perspective, right? Who think that way when they say revelation, they mean the revelation of truths, right?

56:51 So they say the Bible is revelation. The Bible is revealed truth. That’s what they mean. They mean it the Bible is a set of logical propositions of which you have to affirm the truth of each of those propositions. And that’s completely wrong from a Christian perspective. Right? Christ is the revelation of the father. >> Our Lord Jesus Christ is the revelation of the father. And the Bible bears witness to >> the scriptures are a witness to the of of the father that has come through our lord Jesus Christ uh made clear to us shown to us by the holy spirit. >> Cool.

57:37 Okay. Before we get to uh to super chats here I did want to talk about the book of luminaries and jubilees. these like primary sources. In the book of Job, we touched on a little bit. There’s like Job 38:7, I think, is like the famous passage on this. Uh, but the book of luminaries, I think this is like a pretty ancient text, right? Like I think 250 BC is where you put it like between 150 and 250. >> In in your Apocrypha book. And basically in in the book of luminaries, you have Enoch is uh taken on a journey of how all the celestial bodies work by the Archangel Uriel. And uh Euriel shows him like how all these things work. And alongside that are these like teams of angels that are you know operating these different gates through which like all the celestial bodies and even like weather like certain winds come through certain weather patterns like dew snow >> and it’s all administered by these >> Right.

58:33 Yes. [laughter] Did >> I get that right? I understood this >> Yeah. Yeah. And it’s it’s serving the function of laying out the anoic >> Yes. Because it’s 364 flat days, right? >> Yes. And it’s mathematically perfect. >> Uh they argued, but also right it has this spiritual basis, right? This is something revealed, right? The spirits who are behind all of these workings of nature, right? That’s what Enoch gets to see, right? And so the Anaka calendar is sort of a schematization of the spiritual reality of of what’s going on.

59:20 And so it sort of accords with reality in this direct way. And that’s how you knew that like the Pharisees were liberals. Uh if you’re in the Kuman community, the Pharisees were liberals because they have this calendar where you have to add like a whole month every few years. >> Oh, so they’re off from the heavenly they’re not aligning with the heavenly >> Yeah. And the Sadducees used the Julian calendar which meant they were outright pagans as far as second temple Jews were concerned because that Julian calendar was started by a pagan Roman emperor. >> That sounds familiar this objection. >> Yeah. Yeah. Except the opposite now with the old calendars. [laughter] But yeah. >> Yeah. That always it always is funny to me with the old the whole old calendarist thing [laughter] because it’s like >> you do realize that was like the liberal position, right?

1:00:10 The state calendar. Like that was the >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Uh the kicker for me for the book of luminaries is the last chapter where I think it’s Enoch kind of gives the synopsis to Methuselah and he says to like he says that there’s an angel not only assigned just like generally but like each season has an angel each day of the year has its own angels. How how do we make sense of that? I mean it’s that’s that’s just what it is. Well, that’s all all movement and transformation for ancient people was the result of spirits. Okay? So, we think about we think about what is alive in terms of biology, right?

1:00:59 Does it consume nutrients? Does it reproduce? Does it we have all these categories say this is alive and this is not alive. But even our language, animate and inanimate, the word anima is the Latin word for soul, right? What has a soul and what doesn’t, >> Um and so for ancient people, the marker was movement. For something to move or to change, to make progress, >> right? to to move in some direction required it to have a soul or a spirit that was controlling and directing that >> So they look up and they see the sky moving and the stars moving and the sun and the changing of the seasons.

1:01:46 Yeah. >> Right. And the blowing of the winds and the right and the storm and all of these things. The difference with is with ancient Israel and second temple Judaism over against the pagans was not that view. It was of the relationship between the true God, the most high God and those other spirits, which you you read the Pho quote, right? Where Phots that out really well in interpreting Deuteronomy 4, >> right, where he says for the pagans, all of those spirits are gods to be right? Whereas for in in second temple Judaism and ancient Israel, those are like the guy who works at the post office and the guy who works at the DMV >> government workers >> and God is the president, right?

1:02:34 Or God is the king, [laughter] right? >> And you only worship the king. You only worship God, right? >> Right. [laughter] Yeah. Tell us about uh the book of Jubilees, how it ties into that. And uh cuz it it’s like it is a huge basis I think in my video and St. Epanius of Salamus and his weights and measures quotes almost exactly from the book of Jubilees when he’s retelling the creation account. >> Oh yeah. It it’s used I mean it’s used to this day like if in Orthodox Jewish circles like if you go to Sepharia and stuff they have links to the book of Jubilees that it’s it’s sort of their equivalent of Apocrypha it’s their equivalent of a book to be read in private right um and it’s also all through Christian sources too I pointed out in Apocrypha we have a couple of prayers that we use lurgically that are drawing language language from uh the book of parts of the book of Jubilees um in the Orthodox church.

1:03:38 U so I mean the the the core focus of Jubilees is that it’s trying to give a structure to time itself right and to the >> the cycle of time in the universe. So that’s why it’s called the book of Jubilees is Jubilee year was the 50th year. So it’s doing these seven day sevenyear seven sevens of years 50th year right [laughter] like to give structure to time in history but uh it takes the form of essentially retelling the history from Genesis 1:1 through uh Moses receiving the Torah at Mount Si um with a lot of traditions of Uh, real quick, I don’t mean to to interrupt, but real quick, I just wanted to shout out because I saw in the chat, uh, Cassian King, also Dr.

1:04:37 Steven Boyce, I saw in the chat. And also, we have, uh, Jacob Federichi, who says, “Jubilees, our favorite, uh, our Jewish friend here on the channel, says uh, well, Ash probably would be our famous eth favorite ethnically Jewish friend, but Federichi, our Jewish friend. Jubilees is considered a historical >> is my favorite Jewish friend. I’ll give it. [laughter] >> It’s considered a historical. Shouldn’t it be anistorical? Anistorical uninspired text in Orthodox >> Yeah. So, it’s not canonical, but it’s valuable in other ways. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. So, how does that tie into how it’s received by the Christian tradition? Because uh we have St. Danagaras who is talking about like the the angels uh govern matter and the patterns of matter and the elements and that God has you know thousands and thousands of these ministers you know holding up like working in creation to hold it up make sure everything works.

1:05:38 >> Yeah. I mean Yeah. And that’s where they’re they’re drawing on to get that right. And so this is this is what Revelation is talking about when it talks about the dead in Christ who participate in the first ruling and reigning with him until the final judgment. That’s what ruling means, [laughter] right? It means they’re part of this too, right? So uh what you find very quickly in early Christianity is for example this spirit this pagan goddess right was sort of the the patron you know being worshiped in Thessaloni she gets evicted and St.

1:06:28 Demetrius becomes the patron saint of Thessaloni who isn’t worshiped, right? He’s venerated and his intercessions toward God are requested. >> As we know from our favorite scholar, Lawrence Stuckenbrook, that worship [laughter] entails sacrifice while veneration is these other acts of honor. >> Yeah. A lot of a lot of the stuff a lot of the stuff I say that people think is wild or something even people with PhDs in other disciplines like is that thing with sacrifice that’s like day regur anybody studying in the field. >> Right. You could pick up I mean written by any kind of Protestant you could pick I’ve got an SVL book that’s a collection of of uh journal articles on atonement.

1:07:22 that were published during a period of certain years. And the Protestants in there are all like, “Yeah, now of course, you know, the killing of the animal isn’t ritualized and so is insignificant in understanding the ritual.” Like they say that offhand like that’s like just >> not a controversial proposition, >> a controversial thing in the field. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. So, let’s get to some super chats here. I just wanted real quick uh to plug some stuff. So, Father Steven in uh his Religion of the Apostles book if you guys have it, which I assume most of you guys do because you know I talk about it so frequently. It’s page 138. He goes through the book of Job and talks about like different passages in Job like Job 5, Job 16, and we talked today about Job 38, how this proposition is throughout the book of Job.

1:08:13 [clears throat] That’s a good section there. Uh if you’re looking into like second temple texts and apocryphal texts, pseudapigria, father Steven’s book Apocrypha, an introduction to extra biblical literature, it’s basically his study notes. Uh I correct me if I’m wrong, but basically all the notes on like what you should get from these books and it’s been >> introduction. Yeah. >> To try and help you read them for yourself. Yeah. immensely helpful in me, you know, [clears throat] digging into these topics because it helps with like framing and notable things to look out for and like why was [clears throat] this written and, you know, what’s the point of it? So, all of that is like very important context to have. Uh, you got a $200 super chat from Mircat. 200 bucks. Thank you, dude. Amazing video, Alex. Thank you for your work. May the Lord bless you and Father Stephen.

1:09:00 Thank you. Thank you for blessing the channel. Appreciate it. Okay, we got a long list of super chats. Uh, opinion on Red Hot Chili Peppers. >> already gave that answer this. Okay. >> Like Mother’s Milk era is good. It’s a slow decline after that. Some of that stuff’s catchy. Like Ho’s catchy and stuff, but I mean like >> is Father D Young on mission with Asmin Gold. I’m not sure how >> No, [laughter] he would be. >> In fact, my wife I think joined the anti as Mongaloid I mean Asmin Gold uh Oh, that’s awesome. Uh, since your video, I want to start a band called Gravity Angel. That’s a pretty dope band name. I think I am for it. Father Stephen. >> Oh, Gra.

1:09:47 Gravity Angel. >> Are you for it as a band name? >> I mean, it’s okay. It’s not the best one I’ve heard, but I mean, it’s >> uh Mr. Fist. We already went through this one. Uh, Rachel was Chris Mated last weekend. We already went through that one. Many years. Uh, five bucks from Trey. Father, have you asked your parish treasurer what significance the garlic has in Cajun cuisine? This is an excellent question. And why an Orthodox Christian might not add it to the pot. >> I have not gone into that level of detail with it, but I will ask him about that. Now, >> you have to understand, you have to understand also that there’s a whole >> like there’s even subreional stuff with >> Like what exactly you put in your crawfish boil depends what part of Aadiana you’re from and if you’re starting to get some of that creole in there mixed in with your cinjun, which you don’t want to do.

1:10:43 You got to keep those separated. Uh, Father Steven, have you ever listened to Modest Mouse and are you a fan? Also, they Might Be Giants is Orthodox. Prove me wrong. >> Uh, there is a reference to They Might Be Giants in every episode of Lord of >> I have heard this. >> But, uh, yeah, I am a modest mouse. I am a Modest Mouse fan. Although uh if you are a Modest Mouse fan and you’ve never heard it, uh Sunkill Moon did a whole album of Modest Mouse covers and their cover of Never- Ending Math Equation and of uh Carry Me Ohio are So there you go.

1:11:33 Everyone learned something today. Not something useful or marketable, [laughter] but something. Uh, the Tanner G, five bucks. Hello, Father and Alex. Do you guys have any book recommendations detailing the Christian virtues and sins? Uh, St. Gregory of Nissa, I was recently looking at, he has an essay on this. U St. Basil the Great has a book on Christian ethics. Uh, and Father Steven, I’m going to guess that you’re going to recommend St. John Cassian. >> St. Cashin >> who in his institutes has the eight evil thoughts that became the basis for the seven deadly sins and the eight virt corresponding virtues in his conferences because everyone should read more St. John Cash >> the conferences is extremely underrated.

1:12:20 It’s not getting I’ve been flipping through it recently and like especially conferences eight because he talks about angels in that one. I’m just reading through it and like first of all it’s like very well written like it’s just maybe it’s just a translator but it seems like very humbly written like he’s not going out of his way to use complex technical terms or like something you’ll >> get wrote in maxim so it’s a very straightforward translation of if you’re reading the Paul pressed editions it’s a very just straightforward translation of the Latin uncontroversial >> uh it’s about time you stream again I thought you went back to being kind of costal No way. Not going back. But uh as I said, I’ve been, you know, I was really trying to make sure that video was some quality. And you know what’s crazy is you’ll put so much time into something and I look back at it and I found a typo >> after I after I posted it and went live and had like 20,000 views.

1:13:14 >> that’s all you see now? >> That’s that’s I’m like I failed. >> This is why I don’t listen to my stuff. I don’t listen back to my stuff. I don’t watch back >> mistakes. Yes. [laughter] Uh, your debunking was epic. I will watch it 10 times to retain 5% I can regurgitate. Do more of those. I will try. I’ll try. I think those are good. They are very, uh, they take a lot of work because, you know, I’m trying to read all the sources that I site to. So, uh, when atonement book, father, I’ll pay in bit honey. >> Well, then [laughter] you won’t be getting a copy from me because I will not accept payment in bit honey. Bitcoin maybe but not bit u >> the estimated >> so it’s looking like sometime it’s going to actually get published where you can buy it sometime next year >> and I’ll nar be able to narrow that down as we get closer uh Peter Mirth see my question I sent oh come on man in the chat if put it again right now in the chat and I’ll pull it up I’ll keep an eye on it I can’t scroll all the way back.

1:14:23 But thank you for the five bucks, Eduardo. Revelation 5:13. And every creature which is in the heaven, sea, the earth, and all that are in them heard I saying, blessing and honor, see they all saying. I think that is a relevant text for the topic. Five bucks from Sam. Good evening, father. My Protestant friend thinks monasticism is selfish. That’s weird. Not sure how dying to the world is selfish. Uh yeah, any good defenses, resources for that? Also, Alex, your bit rate is whack. I know. I think it’s uh I think it’s Streamyard because otherwise I I haven’t changed anything and everything else. >> Canadian internet. Are you streaming on maple syrup? Is that >> I have it. It could be a maple syrup disturbance.

1:15:09 Uh I’m on uh uh fiber optic internet so I don’t know what the issue >> but sometimes streamyard has issues but >> yeah resources >> I don’t know what he means by selfish in that context right like I would think getting rich and >> yeah I I heard would be >> I heard redeem Zoomer use this line of argument before where he’s like you have these monks that just uh they they sit in a what’s it like a skate and they’re just not in society. They’re not helping anybody. They’re just kind of alone by themselves just praying to God and all they care about is like their own relationship with God. They like show up to church and then they go back into isolation after that. >> So redeem redeem Zoomer thinks prayer isn’t valuable.

1:15:56 Got it. >> I mean [laughter] that’s I mean they are praying for the whole world. That’s the that’s why they are in isolation, you know. >> Exactly. That’s not valuable. Like >> right. The the vast majority of people are not monastics. It is their job to be providing material aid to people who are in need of material aid >> because they are living in the world and therefore have the capacity to do that. And then there is this smaller group of like the community of the prophets in the Old Testament who go outside right the the general day-to-day life and focus on prayer for everyone right and for the whole world.

1:16:45 >> Yeah. I think another angle might be to like read through the desert fathers and like show them like is this not valuable? Like clearly this is very valuable information that they >> have gotten through monasticism, right? Like anyway that’s what I would say. argument basically. >> It’s Yeah, it is. That’s a good point. >> I mean it’s [laughter] basically like you need to make valuable contributions to society like the economy or >> Yeah. Since since when do we have this uh utilitarian ethic? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Uh, deck of many toy boxes, five bucks. Father bless. My question is about religion of the apostles. I gave a copy to my evangelical evangelic dad, and I need some wisdom on asking him about it.

1:17:33 What are some probing questions that deck of many toy boxes can ask his dad to approach? >> Well, you can start with, did you read >> That’s [laughter] a great place to start. And then, what did you think of >> Yeah, that kind of thing. >> Did anything stand out to you? Because usually in my experience a lot of like evangelical Protestant types uh like the first few chapters. >> Yeah. That like >> because they sort of have a general belief in the trinity. They probably can’t lay it all out. Right. But when I’m arguing for, oh yeah, no, this is good. You’re showing the trinity of the Bible. That’s good. Right. >> Christologology like that part. And then then you start getting into the more the parts that rub a little more. patron saints praying to the holy >> that’s where it starts to rub war but by then I’m making the same kind of argument for those things that I made for the other things that they agreed with so I’ve trapped them [laughter] the origin of a dilemma >> classic father Steven fashion [laughter] yeah so I mean part of it can just be how far have you gotten Right.

1:18:47 Uh you can even ask him were there any parts you disagreed with? Right? Like why did you disagree with >> Right. And then you know if he says oh I disagreed with this part about patron saint say okay well what what did what did you think was wrong with his argument about that? Why? >> Right. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. >> Yeah. I think that’s yeah open-ended questions. Uh I would say uh Byzantine nationalist says is idol killer orthodox yet? I would say go ask Warren. I I do not feel I’m at liberty to discuss this. >> He doesn’t attend my church. So, I could confirm that, but I I don’t go to any other Orthodox churches on Sunday other than the parish I am a priest at. So, >> I don’t might or might not be. >> Minor man says, “Father Steven, have you read Have you ever read Daniel Quinn in his book Ishmael?

1:19:36 I’d love to hear your thoughts. It led me astray for a while. I have not >> not familiar with it. Yeah, >> I have not. But I will look into that. See what’s going on with that. >> Five bucks from Caleb. Uh five euro from Rui. Good to see you both. We missed you, father. >> With every shot so far. >> Five bucks from Taylor. Tried to think of a question, but my brain is fried after work. I’ll watch this tomorrow. So, here’s five bucks anyway. Thank you, Taylor. I appreciate it. Uh 20 bucks from physician. That’s so rad to learn about the Greek. Father Stephen, such an incredible blessing for barren women to hear. I’ve known several who are disheartened by that verse. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because of that bad interpretation and sometimes agendaized interpretation, [laughter] right?

1:20:28 >> Yeah. Hey, you got to get married. You have to have kids stat as you’re 18. What are you waiting for? >> So, yeah, it has nothing to do with that. Let’s talk about the >> Yeah. Uh Bertrand 10 bucks. Father, I’m reading through your Apocrypha book and I am learning so much. I had no idea how Trinitarian First Enoch is going to be so uh prepared when the final episode of Lord of Spirits comes out. I disagree. I will not be prepared. I will probably have a day of sadness and mourning when the final episode comes out. Uh but I think that’s a podcast that will live on for a long time. There is so much good information in that. No, I gave you too many compliments. Now you’re >> now Father Steven’s not going to come back on for like another year. >> No, but [laughter] >> it may be around in this I mean people still go back and listen to old >> I did for this.

1:21:21 >> So I’m hoping Yeah, I’m hoping I’m hoping it will be around in that way. But new episodes will not be being produced forever. Uh it is not ending but there will there will come an end. The last the the final episodes will be about the book of Enoch. >> Uh 20 bucks from the sanctuary. Thank you, man. Uh father, I read the bail book. How in the world did you pack so much scholarship in so such a small book? Also, a lot of Protestants are waiting impatiently for you to own James White in your debate. God bless. I think I think if I remember correctly, the sanctuary has a Pentecostal background. I’m not sure. Uh so that’s cool. Yeah, I think Father Steven is a is a very efficient writer. How did you pack so much fellowship in such a small book?

1:22:08 >> That was a pain in the that was a pain in the rear for part of my part of my schooling because you get these like write me this many pages. >> Know and I’ve always been like >> in that case I was an overly concise writer and I’d have to be s trying to figure out how to pad things >> and everything. by the time you get to seminars and stuff like the worm had turned. Uh I still remember this this one seminar I was in professor was like okay I mean all PhD seminars people have this weird idea like you’ll see people online once in a while saying oh he didn’t get his PhD from an orthodox school so they taught him people don’t teach you things in in PhD programs >> you’re not sitting there listening >> you contribute [laughter] you contribute >> you are going and doing research in a PhD program, you’re doing your own research and you have as guides and to give you feedback and to poke holes in your research and stuff and try and debunk you, right?

1:23:16 Um, you’re not sitting there passively receiving instruction, right? And so PhD seminars the average one everybody in the class writes a paper and then you present the papers to the other participants who critique them. You try to rip them to shreds, >> right? And you defend it, right? And you go around the circle and everybody does that. That’s what a PhD seminar is. Some of them that I had instead of doing one big paper where you do that, they would have you write several smaller papers. And so I was in one where it was like there were like three different papers over the course of the semester that we were going to be presenting. So he said, “Look, I want you to do it. I want it to be about eight pages, right?

1:24:04 Each one just about eight pages, right?” Because he didn’t want to read all this stuff, right? All students think, you know, I have uncovered the secret wisdom of of all time. I can’t possibly fit all this into eight pages, right? I’m gonna have to tell you all these cool things I just learned. And the professor’s like, “Oh my god, >> can you get to the point, please?” Um, so I go, the first one of those I go and the other people are presenting and they all wrote these like 20 page like 25 page and I’ve got this like eight page thing, right? which is kind of dense, but it’s still Hey, pay. >> I’m like, man, am I going to look bad here, right? Am I gonna look like I didn’t take it seriously? Am I gonna look like And so we they get to me. The professor says, before you present, Stephen, I just want to say to everyone how happy I am that you were the one person in this seminar who followed the instructions about the length of the paper.

1:25:01 And I was like, boy, right? [laughter] Like Father Stephen, I know we’re kind of at time. Do you have I I don’t want to >> We could do We could do a few more super >> Okay. Uh, hello, Father Stephen. I had a great three-hour conversation with a Mormon missionary. He gave me a Book of Mormon and I gave him religion of the apostles, exchanged contacts, and agreed to read each other’s books. I also have a Book of Mormon. I don’t think it’s a very engaging read, to be honest. Uh, I’m gonna try. >> It’s mostly uh, it’s mostly a remix of the King James Bible. >> Uh, Father, your blessing. Alex, as a fellow Romanian and a huge What is he? As a huge Father Steven fan, many thanks for allowing us mere mortals to bask in Father’s intellectual might.

1:25:48 He’s definitely not coming back on my B on my stream now. >> Never again. [laughter] >> May God grant you both many years. Thank you. Uh, kind of curious why the Bible doesn’t mention the pyramids. Uh, according to uh who was who who’s the who’s the [laughter] Ben Dr. Ben Carson? Dr. Ben Ben Carson. According to Ben Carson, that’s where Joseph put all the grains was in the pyramids. Their grain storage units. >> There’s lots of things the Bible doesn’t mention. It doesn’t mention the great ziggurat of Ur. >> That’s Yeah, [laughter] >> it doesn’t mention all kinds of things. >> Whole cities. with some arguments from silence. That’s that’s the that’s the big problem, >> Uh, Alex, I would pay a large amount of money to watch you respond to all of Gavin’s arguments and what it means to be Protestant the way you did yesterday.

1:26:38 I’m telling you, it would probably take a large amount of money for me to >> He gave me a copy. I have a copy. >> Did he? That’s nice. >> Actually, uh, let me try to find Okay. Father Steven, what are your thoughts on sociology? How orthodox is it? you know, uh, as a brief aside, there is a introduction to orthodox theology, short book, pretty plain English by Father Andrew Luth, and he talks about it there. So, there’s a resource for you. But, Father Stephen, >> yeah, basically my take on Boakov at all is um, in a healthy academic theology ecosystem, right? You have a lot of figures concentrated at the center right in the mainstream and then you have a few figures who are out on the fringes out on the edge >> and it’s important to have them right.

1:27:39 It is important to have them. The them being out on the fringe does not make them bad, right? because they’re speculating, they’re investigating, they’re suggesting, they’re questioning helps keep the mainstream from veering off course, right? Because the mainstream then has to respond to that and integrate that, right? And so that helps keep things on course. Where you run into trouble is when you have this situation where people start becoming disciples of one of the fringe figures and just sort of accepting not seeing it as a dialogue between those few outliers and the center but seeing it as like oh I could pick one of these [laughter] and just be a devote and just take everything they say is gospel right um so yeah if when I hear sociology ology.

1:28:31 I worry that somebody’s a Bulgakov stand, right? Um, and that’s not a good thing to be. And that’s not to condemn Bulgakov, right? Those are two different things, right? He had a function he >> in the system and in the greater millu, >> But you can’t like just take him and run with him. You can’t do that with the church fathers >> This is part of the problem, right? You’ll get these people who are like, “Oh, well, St. Gregory of Nissa said this, so therefore I’m going to believe this. And it’s like, okay, but if he said that, and pretty much all of the other church fathers said otherwise, >> said not that, >> right? [laughter] That means on that topic he was at the fringe, part of a discussion with the others, right? And you need to receive it as part of that discussion, right?

1:29:20 Not separate it from that and take yourself out to the fringe, right? >> Yeah. I think this is another good question that is like is very suitable for you. Father Stephen had the talk with a family member about becoming orthodox and they were trying to say invoking the saints is necromancy citing >> I know it is not. What is necromancy in the context of Deuteronomy? >> Yeah. My response to that is always uh if I was going to do necromancy I would have a skeleton army. Do you see a skeleton army? So, I am not doing any necromancy. That’s the kind of logic you just can’t argue with. Um, but yeah, ne what what they’re calling necromancy isn’t even really necromancy. It’s just divination. It’s just trying to contact the spirits of the dead.

1:30:10 >> To some end, >> Which I think there’s like some weird assumption underlying this too, which is okay. In the old covenant, everybody went to Shaol, >> right? The saints that we are praying to, they are the holy ones of God. Like there’s something changed after the heroing of Hades and the resurrection. The righteous ones partake in the first resurrection, right? So that it’s not the same as in the old. We’re we’re invoking we’re appealing to the holy ones, not to souls and shol, >> right? And and I I think there’s just a basic difference in these phenomena, right? And it’s not that you couldn’t, right? Like if someone came to you and said like, “I’m gonna use this Ouija board to contact St. Michael the Archangel,” right? You’d be like, >> “That’s not how you’re supposed to.” >> No.

1:30:58 [laughter] Right. Or real world example, I knew a girl who was uh from the Philippines and was part of a a charismatic Catholic group. Her family was at least >> charismatic Catholic group. And they had this woman who came and wanted to stay with him who said she got possessed by the ba spirit of the baby Jesus. Like this is not a Tallaladega Nights joke. Like seriously that was what she presented to them and wanted cash for some reason. I don’t know why the baby Jesus needed cash but um right. So yeah there there stuff like that. We could all tell the difference between that and saying St.

1:31:44 Nicholas, you are a wonderful bishop. You you you uh you know uh set an example for all of us. Pray to Christ that our souls would be saved, right? Like if you can’t tell the difference between that and using a Ouija board to talk to St. Michael, like I don’t know what to tell you. Like you’re just you’re not being honest, right? [laughter] Uh, Seven Horns says, “Father, are there any books you would recommend which delve into ancient cultures and/or the mindset of ancient peoples?” I’m glad you asked this, Seven Horns, because I have the exact same question. I’ve recently read the Bale book and St. Paul the Pharisee, by the way. Really enjoyed them. I have the bail book on audiobook and I have a hard copy of St. Paul the Pharisee. I think they’re both both very good.

1:32:31 The bail cycle, I think, is really important to understanding ancient cultures. Uh, Father Stephen. >> Yeah. So, I mean there’s different there’s different stuff on different cultures and you’ve got to kind of read it and kind of draw things together. Uh like if you’re talking about the early stages very early stages of Greek culture, there’s a book called The East Face of Hel um that is uh out of print ridiculous expensive. So if you find a PDF somewhere, I’m just saying uh later uh Greek religion. Um his name is right out of my brain now. >> what was the title of the book?

1:33:19 >> There’s a book called Homo Neckens. H O space ne. That’s be the easiest one to find. Walter Burkard. >> Yeah, Burkurt. Walter Burkard’s stuff on Greek religion is it. So he has a book called Greek religion. He’s also got that homo neck on neck hands. It’s on sacrificial ritual. Um those are good. Uh there’s a couple of books on religions of ancient Rome that uh Mary Beard was one of the editors on that is really good. the two book, the one book is sort of a book describing it and then the second volume is all primary texts like Roman religious texts so you can see what they’re talking about.

1:34:08 Um uh if you want to go way back to Sumerian religion, there’s a book called Treasures Held in Darkness. Uh that’s really good. yeah, those are places to start, [laughter] I guess. >> that’s a lot of reading right there. You can follow footnotes and bibliographies in those books, right? To get more >> great Scott 20 bucks. Father bless. I was received into the body of Christ September 20th. Many years. Thank you. You have been instrumental in my journey to orthodoxy. You as well, Alex. Thank you. Thank you for >> sharing that. I I love getting the uh testimonies. It’s very >> This will be the last one, I think. >> Okay. Father, are there church fathers who say that Jews who have become Christians can continue keeping the letter of the Torah?

1:34:59 Who or what texts? From what I’ve read, they condemned it. >> Good question. >> What you have to understand about uh I don’t know if Jacob’s still around, he could tell you much more about this, but um keeping Torah isn’t something you do as an individual. Right? Like you can’t just be a synagogue of one, [laughter] right? To have a minion, you have to have a certain number of Yeah, I think it’s five Jewish males, right? To constitute, right, to to do any religious functions, right? So the question isn’t about, you know, should and that’s why, right?

1:35:49 Right? You’ll never hear me say anything about individual Jewish people who convert to Orthodox Christianity keeping Torah. No, obviously not. You become a part of the community that you enter into, right? Um where I’ve talked about it is um and church fathers who talk about that would be like St. Peter, St. James, but [laughter] what would be the model if we had a mass May this be so, right? That mass conversion of Jewish people to Orthodox Christianity. So that we had just like we have Greek Orthodox churches and Serbian Orthodox churches, we had Jewish Orthodox churches where the whole community is Jewish Christians. What would be the paradigm in terms of what they practice?

1:36:39 Because there’s obviously a lot of things in rabbitical Judaism today, practices that are sort of directed against Christianity. Well, those will have to go, right? Like if they’re Christians now, right? And so the paradigm for understanding that will be what St. James practiced, what St. Peter practiced, what St. Paul practiced, what those early generations of Jewish Christians. So by by the time you have church fathers writing about right? By the time you have church fathers writing about this, there aren’t such communities anymore because of the Roman uh g right? In uh with Judea getting changed to Palestina, right?

1:37:25 Palestine and uh them being driven out, synagogues being destroyed, all of this, right? you don’t have and and and they didn’t discriminate. They weren’t like, “Oh, you guys are Christian Jews. Okay, we’ll leave you alone.” Like the Romans didn’t care as far as they’re concerned. Jews are Jews, right? >> So, right, >> those communities got wiped out, right? Uh we couldn’t have Jewish patriarchs of Jerusalem anymore. Well, they weren’t called patriarchs at that point anyway, but Jewish bishops of Jerusalem anymore because Jews were not allowed to enter the city of Jerusalem for centuries. So one couldn’t be bishop there. so yeah, so that got wiped out.

1:38:11 So they’re writing in a situation where they’re talking to Gentiles who are Judaizing. The church father the later church fathers are talking to Gentiles who are Judaizing or to individual Jewish people who converted from Judaism to and communicating to them that they need to now take up the way of life of the community that they’ve entered into not try to solo preserve the way of life from the community they came from. >> Father I’m going to intercede on behalf of Rachel. She has one more super chat. Can you do one more? This is a I think it should be a simple one. >> Father bless my retired priest and I didn’t find too much on my patron saint. Hermione.

1:38:57 What do you know more of her than the little paragraph info that is out there about her? >> I do not know unfortunately. Yeah, I can’t I can’t tell you more than that paragraph. At least not off the top of my head. Um I could poke around a little. There’s trying to remember who put it out. There’s there’s somebody probably have to ask a western right priest or contact a western right parish. They published a three volume thing of western Orthodox saints that has sort of more expansive lives of a bunch of saints that might have more about St. Hermione in it. It’s western very but yeah, so top of my head.

1:39:47 I can’t tell you more. >> Good direction to go. Father Steven, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate again having you on. Is there anything that you would like to plug? >> People know my stuff. Where to >> go watch Father Steven’s interview on Tucker Carlson about the the Nephilim >> buy his books and listenions >> that uh that last episode on Lord of Spirits about Ezra I thought was like really good. And I’m going to have to listen to it again because I’m still confused about [laughter] how many Ezra there are and which are what. But I think you did a good job obviously going through and saying like this is sometimes even known as fifth Ezra and this [laughter] fourth Ezra and then there’s Ezras and there’s Ezra and Ezra Nehemiah was not considered by any Christians to be the canonical version >> or most Jews >> for a really long time or by most Jews >> that is something to next time you have a solos scriptor debate >> that could be a tactic you can’t take >> I may have one >> demonstrate to me that the book of Nehemiah is canonical.

1:40:56 [laughter] >> Biblical scholars can’t go to Josephus like they normally do because Josephus rejected it. >> A biblical scholar, Father Steven Young, he’s, you know, very, he set out this issue very straightforwardly. This is a big problem for you. [laughter] I’ll do it. Cool. All right. Thank you, Father Stephen. Uh, always love having you on the channel. Okay. Uh, let’s go through the rest of these super chats here. Uh, and then I’ll end the stream because I’m apparently on poverty bit rate. I’m going to try to fix this. Um, how best to debate more confessional Lutheran? They aren’t full-blown evangelical and can be harder to understand what they mean on faith or faithfulness. Yeah, they do have a more nuanced view.

1:41:41 I’d take an ecclesiology approach. So, you should familiarize yourself with the book of Concord. Uh, Lutheran, they have to believe everything. Uh, where’s my camera? They have to believe, hold on. Lutheran have to believe everything in the book of Concord. So, you should familiarize yourself with this really well. Um, I also I debated I debated a Lutheran pastor. Uh, it should be in a playlist on my channel in the debates playlist. That was that was that was a recent one. Uh so I would I would debate them on an ecclesiology basis in their ability to excommunicate, right? Because you’re right, they see themselves as like the actual continuation of the western church.

1:42:32 But if they are out of continuity, the whole thing just falls apart, right? And ecclesiology would be prior to any theological doctrines at that point because who cares what your theological doctrines are? You’re not in continuity. You’re not that same group, right? You’re a faction. Five bucks from its pretty trash. Your legal way of teaching and defending orthodoxy is why you’re my goat. Alex, thank you, man. Starting a noob’s job soon. Well, good luck. Hope to start catechism after my move. Thank you. God bless you. Thank you for the kind words. Appreciate it. Had new membership from Andrew Wallen. Thank you. Uh 20 bucks from Trooper. We did this one. That one was for Father Steven. Uh I have to watch Star Trek. Hope you’re [laughter] still here. Thank you for the two bucks. I never realized angelology was a massive weak point for Protestantism.

1:43:20 Do you think they struggle with the same idea when it comes to the cherubim presenting the incense and the prayers to God? In my experience, they just pay verbal credence to that. So they Yeah, of course. We know the angels bring the incense to God. It says that in the Bible. We know that. Uh but it doesn’t have like it’s just limited to that. It’s in that sense kind of a nominalist understanding. I was like, we know that happens because it says so, but they they don’t have a way to integrate that into the system at large. It’s not integrated into their theological system. So, I I do think it is a massive weak point for them. Uh they they like Father Steven said, they have such a modern way of looking at the text and understanding Christianity. It’s an enormous problem for them. I agree. Sadly, Father Timothy, any thoughts on William Shatner’s Metal Show?

1:44:10 I I don’t, nor am I, Father Stephen. We’ll get him back on here. Uh, another Christian church in Canada burned to the ground mysteriously last night. Orthodox sister parish of ours. Lord have mercy. That’s horrible. And Canada is becoming a very hostile place for Christians. I even me at some point I might have to register my channel with the government and they’re going to monitor what I say, right? Depending on the size of the channel. it’s pretty pretty ridiculous. Uh, this is a question for Father Steven. I will do my best. Sorry, George. Uh, he says, “What would be a good simple argument for people that are skeptical of the apostolic father’s writings authenticity?” I’d compare them to other historical documents and like so the argumentation that FF Bruce uses in this in this book that I’m going to find in a second here in this book uh the New Testament documents are they reliable?

1:45:20 This kind of argumentation he uses to argue for the reliability of the New Testament is the same kind of argumentation you can use to argue that the apostolic father’s writings are genuine. Uh just compared to other historical documents and attestation. So uh like what he uses Caesar’s GIC war uh which was composed around 50 BC. The manuscripts are only from 900 years later. Nobody questions the authenticity of Caesar’s GI war. Uh there’s the Roman history of Libby which was written sometime around you know the uh like AD one to AD17 uh and [snorts] 35 subscri uh of those manuscripts survive.

1:46:16 No more than 20 are of consequence and they come from like 500 years later the time of composition. Nobody questions the authenticity of Livy’s Roman history. Uh there’s the histories of and the manuscripts from the histories of Tacitus are from the 9th century. It’s like 700 800 years later. So yeah, nobody questions the authenticity of those. So I would just say that by historical standards, the works of the apostolic fathers are like well attested to. There are some shorter and longer ascensions. you know also be a good resource on this Roman Catholic scholar Dr. Steven Boyce, he has a YouTube channel. His dissertation was on first clements, so he’s very familiar with the different reensions for the apostolic fathers.

1:47:07 Um, also Ubby Petrus. Orthodox 10 bucks. Father is for Father Steve. Favorite unblack metal band. How can I give to beggars when giving them cash will likely be used on drugs that I’m trying to figure out more helpful way to give? I mean, you can give them uh like you don’t have to give them cash. You can give them food or gift card gift card would be a good way I think to give give them something and you know it’s going to be spent on food or they might try to trade it for something else but your obligation is to help them what they do with that that’s on them right of course you don’t want to empower them to sin but and just tell them beforehand I’m giving you this in the name of God make sure you use this for proper purposes because God is looking down on you.

1:47:57 Like uh St. Paul in 1 Timothy 5:21, I charge you in the presence of God, Christ Jesus, and the elect angels. Use this for proper Uh Father, I’m looking forward to your atonement book and four Mcabes, which pretty sure Father Steven might still be watching or I’ll come back and watch. Hear that, Father Steven. Any updates on Aaron Gallagher versus Jay? I don’t think he’s going to do it. Jay, you have to understand I have because my channel is smaller, I have a lot more freedom and liberties than Jay does, which this sounds counterintuitive to a way, but Jay has to be mindful because he has 230 something subscribers. Whoever he debates is going to be like he’s giving them attention. He’s going to platform them a lot. So Jay has to be mindful of, you know, the the people that he platforms that he’s not going to uh shoot them up in the social media standings, right?

1:48:52 This is something I don’t really have to be conscious of that because my channel is not as big as Jay’s. Jay does need to be mindful of this. So I I do not think I doubt it will happen uh unless Aaron gets a bigger following and like better engagement on his videos. No shade to Aaron. He’s a great YouTuber. I like Aaron, but Jay’s there’s levels to the game, man. Jay’s on another level. That’s when you’re trying to debate someone like Jay, that’s that’s a Five bucks from video integrity. The scales on my eyes keep falling by listening to you uh to to you both and reading Father Steven’s books. God bless you both. Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy. Thank you. I watched JP and HHS react to your video. It was the hardest thing to watch. Also, why did Gavin put out a video on stars as angels in the affirmative and then was contradicting himself?

1:49:42 Thoughts for Father Stephen? I don’t know, man. I wish I knew. Uh, he has competing commitments. This is something that he’s going to clip and use. Watch. He has competing commitments, right? So, on one end, he can, you know, speculate about how they were seen as stars historically, right? these embodied celestial uh or insold celestial bodies but on the other hand um you know he can’t say that that you can pray to them or appeal to them in any way. So and then he also has this way of reading the Bible that is very new like father Steven says in his book. So those are all important things to consider.

1:50:31 Besides the book of Tolbet, are there other mentions of St. Rafael the in Enoch, the RH Charles translation? I’m I’m pretty sure. Let me Pretty sure. Give me a moment. Yeah. Uh, first Enoch chapter 9, not the Ethiopic version. He’s not mentioned in the Ethiopic version of First Enoch 9, but if you look at the RH Charles oh, this one says that in he is in the Uh there are some apparently there’s some ascension that does not have Raphael there, but it looks like the majority of them do have it.

1:51:25 uh, Father Steven, are you familiar with Romulus defeat of Acron? I don’t know. Sorry. Uh just joining the stream that last video on prayers to saints. 50 bucks, dude. Thank you, Aiden. The soundboard also the 200 one earlier. I was trying to get to the the substance when we realized that we got 66 clips of the KJV THAT GOES DUDE, the bop bot just gets me every single time. Dude, >> you say you’re Christian, but you gay >> just joining the stream. That last video on prayers to the saints was just the best.

1:52:11 Thank you. That was the video I’ve been waiting for someone to make for at least three to four years. Genuine thank you for all the hard work you put into it. Thank you. That was I did a lot of reading for that one. A lot. People thought I was dead. [laughter] I’m not. People were like, “Alex, are you okay?” Like, “I haven’t seen you in a minute. Are you still alive?” Dude, I was I was marking things up. I had postits every on like, dude, I bought a ton of books for it. I This new This New Testament apocrypha book I’ve had for a while. This is a useful one. The martyrdom of Paul. It has the Acts of John in there. Also, the Acts, the Acts of John. Uh, a bunch of infancy gospels. It has the protoeangelium of James. uh uh com complete works of Pho.

1:52:58 This is also an important one I guess just for historical purposes. Um and how like helanized Jews thought about things. Uh this dead sea scrolls book. This is very useful because there’s commentary also from these scholars uh Michael Weise, Martin Abec Jr. and Edward Cook. This is very useful for like academic stuff. Uh, the commentary also helps. Uh, and a huge like this. Okay, I gotta like I gotta do a video on books because I spent a lot of money on books and I realized that I’m double spending money on things and there’s a more efficient way to do it and I feel like I should do a video just to save people money. Um, so this Charlessworth Old Testament pseudoepigripha comes in two volumes.

1:53:47 Uh, it’s the Old Testament pseudapigripha by James Charlesssworth. So, two volumes of this one. That’s pretty cool. Like, I don’t know if you guys can see that cuz it’s so freaking pixelated. Um, but yeah, this is this has everything in it, dude. And it’s like 120 bucks. It’s so extremely cheap for what you get. And it comes with commentary. It’s very very and excessive footnotes on translation decisions. Th I I cannot believe this is a hundred bucks. Like it’s it’s you can go get it on Amazon. This is like a gold mine. This everybody who is interested in apologetics and this like intertestamental period documents, everybody should have a copy of this.

1:54:33 It has the testament of the 12 patriarchs in there. Uh other has first Enoch in the Ethiopic version. uh the Sibeline Oracles. Um multiple other the Apocalypse of Abraham. a lot a lot of different resources. Uh I’m just going through the table of contents a little bit for you guys so you know what it is you’re buying because the what Amazon has to do for these books, they have to at least have a table of contents because I want to know what I’m buying, right? Uh what else do they have? So the volume two has Jubilees, the martyrdom and ascension of Isaiah, Joseph and Asenath, uh Pseudo Pho Janice and Jambre uh which is first to third century.

1:55:21 I think it’s a it’s a recreation of what St. Paul is referencing. It’s not the actual document. Um, there a lot of this is like a really really good document or a really really good book uh setup that I would recommend that to everyone. That’s a really good one for the camera fund. I’m pretty sure it’s the internet dude or Streamyard honestly. Who or what is a zazil in Leviticus 16? Uh it’s the bad spiritual being in the because they think remember father Steven was saying that and every ancient near east scholar like ever it’s talking about how there’s no dichotomy between the spiritual and natural world for ancient people.

1:56:10 Um the desert think about it’s a hostile place. There’s vultures out there. There’s no water. There’s no life there. That’s where Isazil is. He’s that force of like death in the desert. So, they are sending the sin uh goat to Isazil. Back to Aazil where where the bad stuff came from. They’re sending it back back there. So, good question. 20 bucks the sign. Alex home run on the prayer to the saints video. Thank you. Thank you. God, praise God. Uh, I’ve been reading the book of the cave of treasures because of Jonathan and Deacon Sarapim. They’re doing some good stuff recently on on those weird books. It seems to fill in a lot of gaps from Adam to the crucifixion.

1:56:57 I’ll have to take a look at that. It’s interesting. Five bucks from or five bucks five gifted from Father Timothy. Thank you for the five gifted. Alex, [clears throat] are you a fellow Kuck? I am an American citizen with Romanian who’s ethnically Romanian. Uh, and I married a Canadian. So, I live on a border city between the States and Canada. So, I am a Canadian resident, American citizen with Romanian blood in my veins. Uh, Midian Midianso 50 bucks. I am so happy you invited Father Steven. I hope during this decade I will finalize my email to Father Steven. I’m a Romanian Canadian living in Ontario. Thank you. God bless. Awesome. Let’s see the the Romanians uh gathering around here.

1:57:44 What do you think of Catholic miracles? Example, Fatima. Uh Orthodox are agnostic on Catholic miracles. We don’t have an opinion either way. Uh that said, there are numerous uh instances in the Bible where we’re warned against using miracles. Like for example, we’re supposed to test the prophets. Um, a miracle will not fix faulty theology. If your theology is faulty and then you have a miracle, your your theology is still faulty, right? It it doesn’t fix a logical fallacy. It doesn’t say, “Oh, now your logical fallacy is gone just because you have an apparition, right?” Right. So that’s that’s what I I know that maybe I should make a video on this too because recently there have been a lot of arguments uh from Roman Catholics and that that guy that uh that agnostic guy who converted to Roman Catholicism.

1:58:36 Apparently the miracles played a big role in that. I uh I this is a fallacy. I don’t know like these people are supposed to be really good thinkers or something and they’re converting based on fallacies. good question. Uh, last one. Rachel 10 bucks. When someone asks me about Catholic and Orthodox differences, what’s your advice other than papacy differences? Had a hard time answering this question with a client today. It’s a good question. What’s a good way to like in a nutshell, what are the I probably frame it as there are a bundle of uh Christian groups that claim uh straight historical line all the way back to the apostles into Pentecost.

1:59:33 Um among those groups are you know the Holy Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholics, the anti-caledonians and uh the notorians and we had a big breakup with the Roman I mean 1054 is the conventional date really. It’s I would say after the fourth crusade that it was like the final nail in the coffin there. That’s when it seems that all attempts at reunification were like kind of halted for a while and then you have lions and then a second council of lions and then the council of Ferrara But it was that was kind of the nail in in the coffin. I think was the fourth crusade. But anyway, it started with the eighth ecumenical council when they went back on it and they pretended like they had never heard of it before.

2:00:28 and I’ll just say that we had a big breakup. They went down their own line of thinking and they had a bunch of changes after that including among those changes are the place of the bishop of Rome in the church how much authority he has the papacy uh the role of bishops in the church also changes to like basic theology and emphasis on uh arisatilian philosophy over you know what St. Vincent of Lauron says is like the simple ancient religion of the apostles that was passed on to the church. Uh an emphasis on scholasticism, you know, and again like we’re not against all these things in holy orthodoxy, but we’re against the isms, right? So the scholastic method, you can use that as an orthodox Christian, but we are not scholastics.

2:01:20 we’re not uh you know we don’t agree with scholasticism like that’s our our problem with it right so at the end of the day it’s the tradition passed down from the apostles to the holy fathers that so it’s binding on us so that’s probably the approach that I would take that was really long there’s a bundle of Christianities that claim a straight shot back to the apostle to the apostles the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox they had a big breakup around a th00and AD And after that breakup, they have a bunch of accumulated things that we don’t sign on to, including uh improper uh veneration of Mary, including, you know, we venerate Mary too, but we would say they take it too far.

2:02:06 Um, you know, the role of the bishop of Rome in the church and other things, you know, the way they do theologies, the methodology behind it, right? palmism versusm. Yeah. So, okay. I think that uh kind of sums it up, guys. Since my bit rate is just like dying on me here, I’m going to close out the stream. Uh and maybe I’ll do maybe I’ll go on Twitch. I’ll stream some some Halo matches if you guys want to go hang out there on Twitch. I’ll do a little bit of Halo before before the wife gets home. Uh, but otherwise, yeah, thank you guys. I’ll try to fix the pixelization. We’ll go back to like normal streaming hours after this. Uh, but I got to fix this this camera thing.

2:02:54 I don’t know what the issue is. So, anyway, love you guys. Thanks for watching. See you later.